To access the available transcript please use the following link: https://bit.ly/3gzXr5k
Jamie Beddard, one of the UK's leading disabled theatre practitioners. He is a writer, actor, director and workshop leader as well as a trainer and consultant. Above it all, Jamie is an insisting advocate for the integrated sector, working tirelessly for change.
He is Co-Artistic Director for Diverse City, a performing arts company where social justice and culture meet and Lead Artist for Extraordinary Bodies, which is the UK’s leading professional and integrated circus company.
We talk to Jamie about his multi-faceted career so far, the barriers and the opportunities for the disabled in creative arts and how covid has affected these. We also discuss his view on how teachers and learning institutions can lead the way in accessibility for the performing arts, and how society can shift its focus on what disability is.
To access the available transcript please use the following link: https://bit.ly/3gzXr5k
Jamie Beddard, one of the UK's leading disabled theatre practitioners. He is a writer, actor, director and workshop leader as well as a trainer and consultant. Above it all, Jamie is an insisting advocate for the integrated sector, working tirelessly for change.
He is Co-Artistic Director for Diverse City, a performing arts company where social justice and culture meet and Lead Artist for Extraordinary Bodies, which is the UK’s leading professional and integrated circus company.
We talk to Jamie about his multi-faceted career so far, the barriers and the opportunities for the disabled in creative arts and how covid has affected these. We also discuss his view on how teachers and learning institutions can lead the way in accessibility for the performing arts, and how society can shift its focus on what disability is.
Matt Moseley:
Hello and welcome to the Teach, Inspire Create podcast!
I'm your host Matt Moseley, Chief Examiner for Art and Design at the UAL Awarding Body.
In this series I'll be talking to artists and creative industry leaders under the lenses of three main themes: Teaching, Inspiring and Creating..
Today my guest is Jamie Beddard. Jamie is one of the UK's leading disabled theatre practitioners. He is an actor, writer, director and workshop leader as well as a trainer and consultant.
Above it all, Jamie is an advocate for the integrated sector, working tirelessly for change.
He is Co-Artistic Director for Diverse City, a performing arts company where social justice and culture meet and Lead Artist for Extraordinary Bodies, which is the UK’s leading professional and integrated circus company.
Today I’m going to be talking to Jamie about his multi-faceted career so far, the barriers and the opportunities for the disabled in creative arts, and how covid has affected them.
I also want to get his view on how teachers and learning institutions can lead the way in accessibility for the performing arts, and how society can shift its focus on what disability is.
And before we get into the conversation, Jamie’s got a message for all our listeners.
Jamie Beddard
Just before we get going on this podcast, I hope you can understand me.
But, I’m sure you will get used to the way I talk as we go on.
Matt
There is a transcript available for this episode. Please click the link in the episode description so you can read as you listen.
Montage of speakers saying ‘Teach’ repeated 5 times.
Matt
Hello Jamie! How are you doing?
Jamie
Hello, I’m good. Yeah, it’s good to be here.
Matt
Our first question that we’ve been asking everybody that comes on the podcast is a little bit about education.
So, we’ve asked people to kind of think back to those formative years, and just asking them whether or not there was an inspirational teacher, or an educational experience, or an opportunity that kind of set you off on your path as a performer?
Jamie
Yeah I guess I had an unusual education. I went to mainstream a school as a youngster, which was in London.
Being one of the only disabled people in a more mainstream school, I had a lovely time. But I wasn’t doing anything academic, so my mum and dad sent me away, to a residential secondary school.
Matt
Ah okay, so you went to a residential school after that?
Jamie
But I was a really big fish, in a really tiny pond.
Matt
Laughing
Jamie
I had no… the arts was never on my radar, and then after I went to a residential school I went to Kent University.
I did sociology, and I got a very mediocre sociology degree.
Matt
Laughing
Jamie
Still, the art’s was never on my radar.
Matt
Yeah, so not even at university was there…?
Jamie
No, and when I came back to London, I began youth work and I was really terrible,
Yeah…
And then one day, the BBC was looking for disabled actors to be in a film and someone got hold of my name and the BBC invited me in to meet them.
I thought it would be really good to go a White City building.
I thought there’s no way I’ll get it, but I’ll be brilliant.
Matt
Laughing
So you’re good at the self-promotion early on?
Jamie
Well you know, I just thought I’ve got nothing to lose.
Matt
Of course, yeah yeah.
Jamie
I couldn’t make it up. And the next day, they let me out and said “we’d like to offer you the job” and the week later I was on a film set in my first acting role. It was completely by accident.
Matt
Straight in at the deep end then.
Jamie
Yeah, and I loved it. I loved my introduction the world of acting.
Matt
So your acting education was your first professional gig with Ian Drury for the BBC?
Jamie
Yeah, I mean absolutely I didn’t do any training. And then, I pursued it a bit more and got into a company in London, well known, for people with disabilities. I got a job with them and that changed my life.
I had never really met other disabled people.
Matt
Right okay yeah, because you said that when you were at Primary school you were the only disabled person there, and then at the residential school you were yeah…
Jamie
Yeah
Matt
…so this was the first opportunity to kind of be amongst other disabled performers?
Jamie
Yeah, and people who wanted to be performers, and people who were doing acting, and people who were making work.
I loved it. And that was the beginning of my journey into the art.
Matt
So did you stay in film and television for a while to begin with, or did you start?
Jamie
Well no, I got a big job at the start, but I’ve only done the odd job here and there…
Matt
Yeah, yeah.
Jamie
…its never been really regular, but I got more into theatre and did a combination.
Matt
Do you prefer live performance and theatre then?
Jamie
They’re very different. I love TV and film, I love the money…
Matt
Laughing
Jamie
…I love the people. Theatre is what I’ve done more on.
Matt
And that’s just the way the work has fallen.
So, do you consciously not specify yourself to an area as a performer, do you like to just be open to everything?
Jamie
I think as a performer you need to do a lot of different things, and as a disabled performer, the opportunities - well when I was younger there weren’t many opportunities there - you needed to diversify.
I mean I did a lot of training, I did a lot of workshops, I need a wider portfolio.
Matt
Yeah, I was going to say a sort of portfolio career that you’ve got then. ]
So with your training, who do you work with generally within your training?
Jamie
Well now, I mean this is 30 years later. Now, I’m associated with a number of different companies.
My main company is called Diverse City, i’m Co-Director, so I guess I do do training, but I’m more interested in making work, running a company.
I don’t get so many acting opportunities now, but when they do come up, I love them. It’s like going back to school.
Matt
So, you’re working in training now, so you’ve got, I believe you work with an organisation called Diverse City, is that correct?
Jamie
Yeah, I’ve been connected to Diverse City for about 10 years, now I’m Co-Artistic- Director and we make work with, we do training, we do all kinds of different activity.
Matt
Are those performers disabled performers or are they, is it a range of different people?
Jamie
Yeah, we work with a range of different people. Besides the performance, we do leadership training, I like to develop other people who might not be your normal leaders.
Matt
Well, you mentioned that there was limited opportunities for you when you started out, so is part of that empowerment that you’re offering to people a ready-made opportunity for them to access, a way into the industry that maybe wasn’t there for you at that time?
Jamie
Yeah, I think when I was coming through in the 90’s, I was one of not many. 20 years later or 30 years later there are a lot more people in the industry. But it’s still very difficult.
Matt
So there is some improvement happening in the industry?
Jamie
Yeah
Matt
I mean obviously, it’s quite brave of you isn’t it, to just kind of leap into an audition with the BBC or an opportunity like that. Is that something that you’ve kind of always tried to do, is just to go for stuff? Was that something that was always in you?
Jamie
Yeah I think my career has been pretty random. If you are disabled, your career tends to be a bit more random, you maybe don’t get the opportunities. It’s often about meeting the right people at the right time and jumping into stuff and just going for it.
Matt
So is that why you actively have built this portfolio career for yourself where you do all these different things?
Jamie
Yeah, I mean in order to make it work, in order to make a living in the arts, unless you’re a really big name you do need many more strings to your bow.
Matt
Yeah, multiple hats that you wear yeah.
Jamie
Particularly the older you get and the more responsibilities, when you’re younger you can live day to day…
Matt
But yeah, as you get older you need a bit more stability, so training and teaching, and working collaboratively with new performers – is that an enriching way to fill those gaps?
Jamie
Yeah, I love it.
There are many more disabled and younger artists now, that have grown up and they’re nicking all my work.
Matt
Laughing
Jamie
A lot of them, there’s more training, more of them go to jobs.
In a way drama schools, are behind the industry.
Matt
Yeah, behind the industry, I mean, do you, that’s potentially correct for I guess several areas of creative arts, that education is slightly behind the industry.
I mean it’s reassuring to hear that the industry is becoming more accessible for people.
Jamie
When I was younger the argument drama schools used is, we don’t wont to train people who will never get work. Now the opposite is true. Actually, a good disabled actor, with good training, they’re going to get more work than a non-disabled counterpart.
Matt
Right I see okay so, correct me if I’m wrong but what you’re saying is that it’s now kind of become so supportive and accessible, that there’s so many students going through the traditional drama route, that for some of those disabled performers that maybe take a more non-traditional route or do go through drama school, that when they come out the other side there’s almost more opportunity for them?
Jamie
Yeah, I’d say yeah, I’d say the training places are behind the industry.
Matt
Right yes okay
Jamie
The industry wants performers with good training.
Matt
So you’ve seen in the, you know through your career, the industry actively looking to be more representative of society and diversity?
Jamie
I mean yes, yeah, I mean some schemes have been tokenistic. But there’s a general realisation that we do want diverse companies.
Matt
Yeah diverse companies, and yeah so as you say I can imagine that some of those efforts that people…are tokenistic. I mean, have you got any good examples that come to mind of a project that you’ve worked on where you’ve felt like diversity is really, just naturally embedded and really well represented?
Jamie
I’m working for a company; we make really diverse work. My company, I would say.
Matt
Yeah Diverse City, is that because you’re there to kind of help set that tone a bit?
Jamie
I mean we are commissioned to showing the world the way the world really is. That is one of our driving principles.
In my opinion, and I’ve been saying this for 20 years. Good art is about new ideas, new voices, new perspectives, new talent. Therefore those who have been marginalised who are in a really good place to deliver.
Matt
You’re right, I mean good art should support those kind of new directions and new ideas and talents and should be an open space. It’s really interesting actually to hear you say that you know, that actually these more diversified performers have something new don’t they, to offer to the industry.
Jamie
I mean, having said all that, we’re not there yet.
Matt
No, of course not.
Jamie
It’s different to when I started, but there’s still many more doors that we need to be knocking down.
Matt
Your value system as an actor, do you look for particular types of role that you want to portray?
Jamie
When I think my career as an actor, I know most actors, I said yes to anything.
Matt
Laughing Right yes, because of the need to survive.
Jamie
I can’t remember a lot of things I’ve said no too. But I mean obviously as I got older, the roles that portray disability in a really dodgy way, I wouldn’t do that.
But, a lot of my best memories are doing jobs where I am disabled, but that isn’t my underlying, I remember doing ‘Waiting for Godot…
Matt
‘Waiting for Godot’ yeah…
Jamie
… and that was bloody amazing, it’s a classic! like.
Matt
Yeah of course, yeah.
Jamie
And I happened to be disabled.
Matt
Right, disability is a very small part of a much bigger picture. And that’s often I think reflected isn’t it, by society in general, that that’s kind of the first thing, or the big headline isn’t it with an individual, that it’s the disability first. And that really feels like there needs to be change there.
I mean, how do organisations, and institutions, and systems need to change?
Jamie
I’ve been planning to mention that what you’re talking about is ‘The Social Model of Disability”. There’s ‘The Medical Model of Disability’, which is kind of the old way of looking at disability, and that says that I am the problem, and that I need to be made better.
But, that isn’t very helpful in my opinion. The Social Model would argue that I am disabled by the world around me.
Matt
Right ok. So if I just kind of, just to make sure I’m getting that right. What you’re saying there is that some of the issues relate back to the medical view of disability, which is where, as you mentioned, a disabled person needs making better, which is obviously wrong.
Jamie
No, please don’t make me better I’m alright!
Laughing
But yeah
Matt
And then the social disability model is how people with disabilities are basically made disabled by a society which isn’t set up to support them, or allow them to access it.
Jamie
Yeah so I’m going to give a really simple example, If I’m in a wheelchair and I can’t get in your building because it’s got steps, your building is disabling me. If you put a ramp in, I’m no longer disabled.
There are only a couple of questions you need to consider. What are the barriers for people with disability, and once we know the barriers, how can we mitigate them?
Matt
Right, what are the barriers? What are the issues? And what are we going to do about it?
Jamie
Yeah, and in teaching, or in anything like that, it can be that simple.
Matt
Yeah, so when you’re planning a project and you’re comping up with your theme and activities, look at that theme and see if there is any barriers for people within what you’re asking them to do, or explore. And if there are, find some solutions.
Jamie
Yeah.
Matt
It’s fairly simple isn’t it.
Jamie
We’re meant to be working in the creative arts, that’s what we’re meant to be good at so yeah.
Matt
Because I remember you mentioning an interesting fact when you talked at the conference about how banking, even though we all, you know, creative arts thinks that it’s really accessible, there’s more overt accessibility within the banking industry.
Is that still the case or have you seen improvement?
Jamie
I think I was talking to diversity rather than accessibility.
Matt
Okay, apologies, right so that’s more about diversity.
Jamie
Yeah, they understand the value of a diverse workforce more because, financially it makes sense to have a lot of different people with different ideas, working together.
Matt
So in those spaces maybe they’ve got a better view of a diverse workforce.
And was that, was that related, I think at the time you were kind of relating it to that Hollywood vision of things, you know how casts are often put together for things and often there’s an under representation of disability and diversity.
Jamie
Yeah, there’s an under-representation in Hollywood, you have only to look at people who win awards. I mean people win awards by playing disabled, when they are not disabled, which is clearly ridiculous.
Matt
It is absolutely ridiculous yeah, that able-bodied people win academy awards for playing disabled, yeah even when you say it, it just seems ridiculous.
Jamie
Yeah, it’s nonsense.
Matt
Nonsense.
Jamie
I think in terms of my identity, disability is one element of who I am. y identity is varied and complex. If disability is the only thing people want, I’m not very interested.
Matt
No I absolutely, I can imagine not, as you say there’s so many other things at play which are much more interesting.
*Inspire Jingle* “Inspire” repeated by different voices including Matt and Jamie’s x4 times.
Matt
Where do your ideas come from? Do you have a process that you go to, to come to an idea?
Jamie
I mean it’s really difficult and really random.
As an actor it’s brilliant if someone rings you up and goes “we’ve got a role, do you want to do it”
Matt
So you’ve got some text to respond to…
Jamie
Yeah, yeah, that’s really simple.
At the moment I’m working on my own piece about becoming delicate, and it’s really difficult, it really… I guess, the most productive stuff I’ve done have been collaboration.
Matt
That piece of work you mentioned about becoming delicate, that’s something that you’re working on, kind of on your own?
Jamie
No, no, no I’ve been working on it a while: I’ve been doing a lot of R & D.
Although we all become delicate, I’ve been interviewing people who use their bodies. Yeah I’m really interested in other people stories, I might meet people, not like yourself… I mean, that’s how I got into circus.
Matt
Yeah, I wanted to talk to you about how you joined the circus, how did that come about?
Jamie
My co-director of Diverse City, Claire Hodgson, who I’ve known for 30 years. We met in a big community arts venue 30 years ago, when we were participants.
And now, it’s amazing to be leading a similar project with Claire. About 5 years ago, no, more than that, yeah it was 20212, Claire said “we’re gonna run away and join the circus.”
Matt
Laughing
So you met 30 years ago, you were working together on a big outdoor project then, and then you fast forward…
Jamie
30 years.
Matt
Yeah and you’re running away to the circus together!
Jamie
Yeah, so we met in another company and now we’ve got our own called Extraordinary Bodies.
Matt
And so, within that is there a part of you that thinks, what’s the least likely thing for me to do, and then just, and then you go and do that?
Jamie
I enjoy challenging myself, I enjoy doing different things, I enjoy working with different people that maybe I wouldn’t normally work with. Yeah.
Matt
Yeah. Is it important then to challenge yourself then do you think? To keep yourself moving, and evolving?
Jamie
Yeah it is, I mean although I’m getting on a bit, but yeah I guess challenge is the only way you develop.
It can be difficult, but… the last 2 years have been really challenging for everyone in different ways. Everyone’s been on their own journey.
Matt
Yeah of course, absolutely I mean, yeah so I guess if we touch on if we may, about the pandemic and about the performing arts. Because obviously the performing arts was an area that was really hit wasn’t it, in terms of, suddenly all live performances cancelled. How did you navigate that time, what did you do?
Jamie
Well I mean it has been really difficult, but we’ve been fortunate, we managed to keep our funding going, we’re supported by the Arts Council.
We’ve been really lucky, we haven’t made anyone redundant
We’ve been making work online. And, we’ve got a youth company, and they were pioneers. They needed the weekly connection, and they immediately went online and found ways to work online. Now we make blended shows.
Matt
Blended shows okay, so there’s some physical performance, some online performance?
Jamie
Yeah. It’s really important to say, things are not going back to normal.
Matt
Right, so you perceive a future where online will sustain in some way, but in a harmonious relationship with physical?
Jamie
Well, that’s the idea, but the way we work, what we make is very different. With Covid we’ve had to be really careful, a lot of our company are more vulnerable.
Matt
Yeah of course, so you’ve got vulnerable performers in the company.
Jamie
We’ve been working individually. We’ve learnt a lot, and a lot of the learning will go into the work we make.
Matt
Well it’s really interesting as you say, that learning, and you know the way you’ve had to change and adapt, hasn’t just become about a way to view the work, but actually a tool and a mechanism within the production of it.
So that, I mean that sounds fascinating, I’ll have to check some of that out.
So just building on what you were talking about in terms of your advice for teachers and organisations, in terms of barriers and mitigating barriers. Obviously, within your work that you do with Diverse City and Extraordinary Bodies, do you have to that sometimes, with your performers? Do you have a concept for a piece you want to produce? and then you have a team, a cast? And do you have to adapt sometimes? or do you know when to push and when not to push in certain areas?
Jamie
I mean in what we do, we do adapt, but I mean everyone in the world is different. If you’re working collaboratively you adapt. But we work, I mean in circus we make equipment for different bodies.
Matt
Right okay, so you might make some bespoke equipment for people?
Jamie
Yeah, a lot of teaching is about repeating repeating what people do. I really don’t like repeating everything, I like people to find their own way to do stuff.
Matt
So that’s an interesting approach…
Jamie
So, I mean we’ve all got unique bodies, and we’ve all got unique abilities. It’s about not copying everything, it’s about finding your own way that represents.
I mean we’ve all got unique properties.
Matt
So your part of your creative process is allowing the individual to take ownership of their role within it and make their own adaptions?
Jamie
Yeah, we work collaboratively. For me teaching is about facilitating, there is an element of teaching but facilitating is more interesting to me, where your work can bring things together to get the best.
Matt
So you’re creating the sort of supportive space to then facilitate performance?
Jamie
Yeah, you’re working collaboratively to get the best out of your students.
Matt
So, I guess that sort of leads me nicely to what essentially is one of my final questions. If you had any advice for young performers now, what kind of advice can you give them to help them stand out, to get into the industry?
Jamie
Don’t rely on performance: think about other ways you can broaden what you do. Also, I mean it sounds really cliché but: you need to go for it. You need to go for it and you need to enjoy it. It’s a great thing to be in, but it can be difficult. You do need to be open. You do need to be vulnerable to be a good performer. You need to think, is there a combination of different things? And, it is important to thing about making your own work, and not to be reliant on a phone call.
Matt
Right, yeah, yeah, so always have your own thing going on at the same time.
Yeah. I think that’s really great advice as well Jamie, because I guess it would become easy to start waiting on someone else, for that as you say a phone call. You know, if you’re constantly kind of moving your own thing forwards, then you’re always in the mode aren’t you I suppose.
So we’re moving into the last section of our recording now. This is our Create section.
*Create Jingle* “Create” repeated by different voices x4 times.
Matt
What we’re doing is asking each of our guests to offer a provocation. Is there a provocation or an idea that you would like students to mull over?
Jamie
Think of all the different people you can meet and work with, rather than working with people you know, repeating what you know is really boring. It’s about opening your eyes, and opening your ears, and opening your heart to difference.
Matt
Well you’re right if you just do the same thing repeatedly over and over again you essentially get stuck in that creative rut as well don’t you? And so being open in your ideas and your thoughts, and your heart to change, is a real challenge isn’t it? But out of that challenge, out of those conversations, and that collaborative work comes the new doesn’t it. And creativity is kind of about the new isn’t it?
Jamie
The more interesting, the challenging, the more new: that’s what the art is meant to be about in my opinion.
Matt
That’s a wonderful challenge to yeah, to be open to something new. Thank you very much for that Jamie.
Jamie
It’s been really nice to come in today, and obviously, you can follow Diverse City, you can follow Extraordinary Bodies. I’d love people to come to see our work, in terms of seasons: we need you.
Matt
Well what would be interesting for people listening now, is what are you up to now?
Jamie
So, at the moment, I’m Co-Artistic Director for Diverse City. I’m a Lead Artist with Extraordinary Bodies, which is a circus company. And I do the odd bit of freelance, including, I’m an Agent for Change at the New Wolsey Theatre in Ipswich.
Matt
Brilliant, and only a stone’s throw from the hallowed turf at the New Wolsey Ipswich!
Jamie
Yeah, I combine find theatre and football!
Matt
You can see the flood lights from the foyer! *laughing*
Jamie
Exactly! And I do yeah. *chuckling*
Matt
Well, that’s brilliant, thank you ever so much Jamie, you’ve been a wonderful guest.
Jamie
That’s alright.
Matt
That’s perfect, that’s brilliant.
Thank you for listening to this week’s Teach Inspire Create podcast with Jamie Beddard. I hope you been able to take some valuable information from this episode and apply it in one way or another into your creative practice.
Join us next week when I will be talking to Nina Stevenson, Education for Sustainability Leader at UAL’s Centre for Sustainable Fashion. We will be exploring how teachers can use creative education to enable conversations and learning about climate justice.
If you enjoyed the show, don’t forget to rate and review us wherever you get your
podcasts. And if you want to please do share your responses use the hashtag #TeachInspireCreatePodcast.
See you next time.