Pushing boundaries in digital art with Jason Wilsher-Mills

Jason Wilsher-Mills is a digital artist from Wakefield in Yorkshire who’s work also features sculpture, Augmented-Reality and 3D Printing amongst other mediums.   

We speak to Jason about his experience of developing a digital art practice after his initial fine art training. He says the accessibility of tablets allow him to produce large scale, detailed paintings despite the physical challenges presented by his disability. 

 Instagram handle: @jasonwilshermills   

Jason’s website: www.jwmartist.co.uk 

Discover more about UAL Awarding Body qualifications.

Transcript

Jason WM edit

Matt M: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the Teach Inspire Create podcast. I'm your host, Matt Mosley, Chief Examiner for Art and Design at UAL Awarding Body. 

Each episode I speak to artists and creative industry leaders about three main themes teaching, inspiring and creating. We talk about their experience of teaching and being taught who or what inspires them, and we explore how they foster creativity in their work with the hope of showing you that there are infinite ways to be creative in the arts. 

Today my guest is Jason Wilshire-Mills. Jason is a digital artist from Wakefield in Yorkshire, whose work also features sculpture, augmented reality, and 3D printing amongst many other mediums.

I'm interested in talking to Jason about his initial fine art training, we explore how his education has led him to be an influential educator working with [00:01:00] others within the community and we discuss how technology has redirected his practice. 

There is a transcript available for this episode, please click the link in the description so you can read as you listen.

Okay here we go. 

Matt M: We're very interested in hearing from you a little bit about to begin with your own educational experience 

Jason WM: yeah, well, I grew up in Wakefield, council estate upbringing, youngest of eight children. 

Matt M: Wow. Busy household. 

Jason WM: Yeah. Really sort of crazy. I, I, I'm sort of convinced we were sort of partly Italian because everything was like hysterical and kind of emotional and even like, sort of meal times were crazy, never expressed anything but it was a really sort of loving environment where anything was possible. I didn't know what an artist was but we used to go on holiday every year to this place called Withernsea, which is on the east coast. And I thought it was heaven cuz I didn't know any better. But, what really sort of triggered the interest in art was going to a fairground when I was about six years old, at the seaside and seeing a painting on one of the rides of William Hartnell, the first doctor who, and there was something as a kid that I thought, someone's done that someone's actually done that. They've painted it to look like that man that I know that's off the telly.

And it was a really powerful moment cuz it's when it dawned on me what art was. So I had no vocabulary for what it was of course, but I had this really emotional reaction to it. So mom and dad really supported this kind of love of art and it's the only thing that kept me quiet even at school they used to just gimme a paintbrush and pencils and tell me to go off and do things and got to go do a bit of art, Jason, and just to keep me quiet but I didn't know what to do with it. I didn't know what to do with it.  Roll on a few more years. I'm in very tough, tough old school, you know? To give you some idea what, what kind of attitude they passed on. We did that thing in when I was about eight or nine. What do you wanna be when you grow up? And I said, I want to play professional rugby league for Wakefield Trinity because they were the local team and that's what you wanted, wanted to do. Or I wanna be an artist. And I always remember this teacher saying, Well, people like you don't become artists.

Like I think about 80% of the kids I was at school with the lads ended up in, in prison. 

Matt M: Wow. . 

Jason WM: The expectancy of, your aspirations then were out to work in a factory or do something, which was horrible and negative. I was on that kind of treadmill really. I was a really bright kid, but they didn't know what to do with me. I was able bodied then, and captain the rugby team and all that kind of stuff. And I got chicken pox in 1980 and I didn't recover from it for several weeks.

And I started getting weaker and weaker and, mum kept taking me to the doctors and saying, There's something wrong with him. he's, and the doctor said, Oh, it's growing pains. ? It's growing [00:04:00] pains. Yeah. Mum rang another doctor and said, Look, he can't get off the sofa. He's having trouble breathing. The guy came out, looked at me and rang that the ambulance straight away and was in hospital for a year and, completely paralyzed from the neck downwards. So this present disability is nothing compared to So 

Matt M: how long did that, So how 

Jason WM: Five years. 

Matt M: Five years.

Jason WM: Sp I missed, the good news is I missed puberty out. I understand. It's quite stressful.

Matt M: It can be tense. Yeah. It Can be tense. 

Jason WM: Yeah. But, I'm in this mindset of what I'm gonna do. The thing was I was introduced to books and stuff and I got, I thought I started reading Charles Dickens and became obsessed with like Great Expectations and really identified with pip.

 So going from a school where they were saying there's no chance for you, you are this, you fodder. You to going to hospital school where there was six people in the class. I mean it was a bit bizarre cause they used to just turn on [00:05:00] TV at half nine and then turn it off at half two when we were going home. But the thing they did do was teach me how to, Cause I obviously couldn't move, so I used to paint with my mouth, with a brush in my mouth. And, that's where I started, going on these kind of flights of fantasy where, , I was imagining what the other me was doing. And that's when I started to be , the creativity started to join up the dots. 

Matt M: what were those early paintings? Were they these adventures? that you were 

Jason WM: Well, I used to have mom and dad again. Amazing, amazing people, their attitude towards what I did is, is sort of best summed up by my brother, who once said to me, out the corner of his mouth, he said, “I don't know what you do, Jason, but I just want you to know I am really proud of you.” And I just thought that was a really be because the, the guy, works in a warehouse is not, you know, he thinks I'm absolutely insane, but he thinks it's great. 

Matt M: There's an admiration. there though, isn't there For, 

Jason WM: so yeah. They supported everything and if I wanted to be an [00:06:00] artist, I was gonna be an artist.

 I remember this so vividly. I was in hospital, the hospital bed. The doctor came, it was the Moscow Olympics, 1980, Seb Co was racing against Steve Ovett and I just remember this and

The, doctor, and it was like out of an, an out of body experience, the doctor. This is what's gonna happen to him. He's gonna, he'd be lucky to make it to 16, , because of his disability is so severe, he won't survive. And some mom and dad like, were, well, you know, one, we're gonna make sure that he does, and two, we're gonna give him every opportunity that we can, 

Jason WM: I did nothing basically other than watched tv. Read bit of Charles Dickens, did a bit of paint to her mouth. 13. They did a, every disabled child in those days, , I dunno if they still do it, but they probably do. But 13, you were basically, your IQ was assessed. 

And , I go in. do really well, obviously. And although saying that, I often think, , what would've happened if I'd have a bad day?

Matt M: did a bad day? Yeah. 

Jason WM: But what was really funny about this, and it's, it sort of followed me through life, really.

The, the psychologist that was doing the IQ test came out and said to my mom, he's so intelligent. He's tested so highly that he could even get married, . So my wife has been wanting to recount since. The figures don't add up. Don't, Were adult. 

But, but bizarrely from the school listened and they said Right then, so we're gonna,

we're gonna push everything we've got. So I, I went from painting with mouth, all that kind of business, watching a bit of telly , to one, two on tuition.

So basically education was like, I was studying George Allwell all of a sudden and doing Rome, young Juliet. And I'm on the curriculum. So basically you Right. He's doing his GCSEs 

Matt M: Yeah. So they're This idea of stories and storytelling

Matt M: Yeah. Seems to really appeal to you. 

Jason WM: It's all stories. Yeah, it's all [00:08:00] stories. All stories. I have people saying, where does your work come from?

I mean, it's insane. What's going on? And I just show the photographs of, you know, interior design, me in front of wallpaper in the 1970s. Look at that. Yeah. We, we grew up with that. Yeah. Yeah. 

 Later in life you discover, , you go through a formal education process and , you find out about other artists properly. And

somebody

like William Blake who was having visions of, , Christ and God knows what, It. I wasn't having those visions, but I was certainly having an experience that I was thinking, Is anybody else seeing what I'm seeing?

This is, is this normal? What I, I think, am I, is blue the same blue to everybody? And really sort of thinking about, That's a good question. And as a kid you've got no vocabulary for that because I'm being through the process. But I remember I was about 11, 12 and I heard Strawberry Fields forever for the first time.

Matt M: one of my  favorites

Jason WM And I thought they, crikey, there's someone else who's, cause it put into words. And [00:09:00] music and phraseology and all that kind of thing. An experience that I couldn't yet define it was something beyond, Yeah, it was a description of creativity that was completely beyond what I understood, but I suspected was there.

It's a song for me that's all about creativity and a creative process.. But it's about how you can sometimes feel quite lonely when you are experiencing that.

And cuz I, I kind of felt like I was really unusual and when I heard that song I thought, I am probably a bit unusual, but there's 

Matt M: But there were others out there who are unusual in their own

music

Matt M: so obviously you are now experiencing this different type of education that you were expecting to have. And then, you move on to a college Education? 

Jason WM: Yeah. Cuz at at 16

I didn't die. Woohoo . 

I kind of recovered to , the extent where I could move my hands again and, you know, even touching, , a table was like the most amazing experience. Everything was like, Wow. [00:10:00] Oh, and girls Oh, wow. And girls . It was like, incredible. I can go to university.

So I went to Waki Tech as it was called then. And, we went on a, a trip to Derbyshire, and we were painting sheep and all that kind of stuff. A tutor,

Alan Chatterton blamey me. It changed my life. I've, I've been so fortunate that I met these incredible people, but, and it was the first time he said, You can be an artist. And we had this conversation that lasted about two hours in the, the wilds of Darbyshire. And honestly,

Matt M: that was it. 

Jason WM: it. Oh, it was, it was the possibilities opened, , to me I mean there were saying like, don't read that tabloid, Get the guardian, get The Times, get expand your mind.

Read these books. Go see the Last temptation of Christ. We went to see the last 

Jason WM: And there's all these [00:11:00] evangelicals 

Matt M: Well it was quite a divisive, very divisive, for a film at the time

Jason WM: Uh, yeah. Sort of saying God died for you, as we're going to cinema. Because I always, I went to see the film and we read the book when we were actively encouraged to do that. We're gonna change the way that you think. Yeah. We're gonna expand your minds. Don't eat that. Literally don't eat that. Try olives.

I didn't know what an olive was. And we seeing a olive. Yeah. They don't knock about on council states in Wakefield. Olive seems like, Wow, when Olive, what's going on?

Jason WM: I was in the melting pot. I was experiencing these things, these new things, and it was, I was alive and I was, there was a future. There was, there was possibilities. And I was painting my mates at that time were like [00:12:00] so amazing cuz they, they kind of gave me such a, an understanding friendship and support cuz they let me be, cuz I was really weird. Like, I'd, I'd literally be trying to work out how, how to walk and talk and. All those things that people take for granted. 

 Nobody gives you counseling when you're recovering.  They give you counseling when you're ill and I needed it when I was recovering cuz this new life was really over. I mean, literally if you, if you can feel something even touching like a table

Jason WM: it's almost too much for you. 

Matt M: It's really interesting then that painting presented itself as the way you wanted to work at that time.

Cause it's a, it's a, it's a physical activity, isn't it? 

Jason WM: The work that I was making,

um,

I remember the cleaners weren't go in my area cuz they were, they were really offended by it.

Matt M: Oh, okay. 

Jason WM: Cuz I was, I was partnering all this, I mean, think kind of, I mean I, I'm, uh, my wife who was a counselor has always said I'd be

Jason WM: a psychologist could make the their 

Matt M: life's the case study.

Yeah. On, on what, what happened to me and how I dealt with it. But I, I was dealing with.

I miss puberty out. What's this, what's this thing happening now?

Whoa.

And so I was making images 

Matt M: Yeah. So art was a, was an outlet

for, for

that. 

Jason WM: Yeah. Trying to deal with that. So I've always been honest, I mean, crikey, you know, sort of frankly honest about stuff and, um, trying to come to terms with suddenly having a body and all, all that kind of, Yeah. But my tutors saying it's okay.

Yeah, it's okay. I've been so nurturing and, 

So Alan Chatterton, this guy who changed my life, his brother-in-law taught at Cardiff and I ended up at Cardiff . Doing my degree.

I've had the best education, art, education that you, challenging crits, where people had been nearly fighting because, you know, you said something about a painting or, but painting was really important to me cause of that thing. Right. It's, it's [00:14:00] visceral, It's real. You can smell the paint. 

 pause

Jason WM:  The main thing is I'm , creating a vocabulary for myself and understanding what the intellectual sort of groundwork is to the art I'm making, but kind of frightened by it.

The three years at Cardiff were incredible. But just before we graduated it was 15 minutes of ‘right this is what happens’.

Matt M: Yeah, you're now you're jettisoned into the world.

Jason WM: Cuz there was none of this module stuff. It was, , You're done. Yeah, you're done. Done. Uh, cheers. And you've got whatever you got and off you go.

So I go back to Wakefield cause I was skit and get a studio. Absolutely, struggling. Early nineties, there's no internet, you have to send slides to galleries. Didn't know anything about the Arts Council or grants or anything like that. And I kind of thought, ‘Oh, blimey’ I did that for two years and I, it was, nothing was happening. There was no way of get in those days you had to basically camp [00:15:00] out on galleries doorsteps and be,

Matt M: yourself unavoidable. Yeah,

Jason WM: And be incredibly interesting all the time. 

Matt M: So does that lead you into teaching then? 

Jason WM: Yeah. Yeah. I've always felt that you should always do the right thing. And I feel that you have to be compassionate and care about other people. I think that's really important. . Because without that, there is nothing. There's nothing. So I was given this opportunity and I was really naive. I thought, Yeah, I, I can transform lives in a prison setting. 

 I get a job, first of all, teaching in the women's prison.

 That is the toughest job I've ever had. Causely me. Um, they just know how to insult you really, really well. Those women, they were brilliant. And then I got a job. I became head of department, at Armley Prison, h and p leads and I worked there for many years.

I started off as an art teacher, so I was teaching I was doing all the stuff that you would do in a college. cuz the, the [00:16:00] prison education departments were affiliated with colleges. 

 I, , developed this way of teaching where I, I basically use humor , to get by and, , do things that you wouldn't expect. You've gotta be the strongest character in that room.

Cuz if you let, they could smell weakness in any form. I just used to hit them with humor.

And although it kind of burnt me out, I'll be honest. It really 

Matt M: Well I can imagine, Yeah. quite intense. That takes a lot of energy to do 

Jason WM: do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And , you've got them for three hours,

Matt M: so what are your strategies to do? So humor is obviously your strategy. to do that. 

Jason WM: stick to your guns about , what, this is a professional environment and they've got to have the best experience ever. And as a result of that, we won , the J Wood Community Arts 

Matt M: Right. 

Jason WM: Which was the first, I mean if you, I mean it's 20 years ago now, but that was such an achievement to do that. And it meant that I got head onto to do another job in an FE college. It was a blessing cuz it, I think [00:17:00] I'd burnt myself out with prison education, but it was also I got ill again, I got ill within six months of getting this job right.

 I only lasted in it for three years and it was, Desperate days. Absolutely desperate. Cause I thought, what have I done to my family? You know I'm really struggling. I can't, I'm gonna lose the house.

Yes,

I'm, I can't provide. And what came next was the best thing ever. One of my mates, obviously an artist, said, You gotta paint your way out with this mate. 

You're an artist. What, what are you doing? Being a manager? You're an artist. You trained all those years. Yeah. What are you doing lying there? Cause I was in, I was a morphine and. Cause I was in so much pain, and he said, You've gotta paint

I just thought, what have I got to lose? Cuz I've got nothing. I couldn't work or I thought I couldn't work. I just need to do a different job. I need to do the thing that I'm supposed to, I'm designed to do.

 So when he said, you're an artist, it was like [00:18:00] that hagrid, I call it my Hagrid moment. You're Wizard Harry. 

Matt M: How do you paint yourself out of something?

Jason WM: you do it. I mean, and it's really trying to say that, but that's the best advice I would ever advice a young artist is do it. , you can make lots of excuses not to do it. But if you do it and you work and work and work, it will pay off. I became an overnight success after 15 years. It's taken me 15 years to have an exhibition at yorkshire sculpture park and for my, work to be part of national collections and things like that. But I think even as that six year old kid, Withersea looking at that, you know, uh, William Hartnell, Dr.

Who, and thinking that's art. I dunno what art is, but that, that's what that is. I kind of knew that that's what my life would be. 

It worked out, but it worked out because it just poured out with me. I mean, I couldn't paint in the traditional way, [00:19:00] so I went down a different avenue 

Jason WM: and it started in this conversation with, Well, I can't paint.

I can't paint, I'm making all these reasons where I couldn't do that. And he said, Well, get an iPad. What's an iPad? And he said, Well, it's it's this thing that's digital. You get the screen's interactive and David Hockney's using one so I thought I'll try it.

So I bought one on the 27th of December. . And by April I had work in a show in San Francisco. So my life transformed. But the thing was I was sharing stuff like three or four digital piece of art every day online. And I got noticed. I got noticed, but it was through like the dam bursting, it just came out and I was making like stuff that was, I looked back and thought, think blind me.

I was in such a mess physically and mentally at that point. But it all came out in the [00:20:00] work 

 You have to be authentic, be real. Don't, don't chase something that's not, don't do your thing. Yeah. Do do the thing that you wanna do. Cats, you know, whatever. Yeah. It's seagulls eating hot dogs. Keep it real and people will. Eventually tune into it, but you've got to be patient 

I spent years doing workshops, going to schools and, doing arts council grants, doing community projects. And, I did a residency, with an organization called She Arts, which is basically an organization that supports disabled artists , if there's any young disabled people who were artists out there, she arts or the people to support you.

Absolutely. Absolutely. 

musiccorby section:

Jason WM: So that's 2015. I was doing the usual thing of making art about myself. . Yeah. Oh, look at, you know, this is my experience. Cause. That's all you have. Frida Carla [00:21:00] says, I make out about myself, cause I know myself really well. I spend a lot of time on my own. this is what I do. 

I had one of these fantastic experiences. Again, I got a residency, in, a little town called Colby, and I spent a year working with, two groups of adults with learning disability.

And what makes Corby really interesting is they're in the middle of nowhere. They have the, one of the highest percentages of disability in the country. Erin Brockovich, she supported a class action against the council because of the steel works and the dismantle of the steelworks causing a higher rate of disability within the town. So basically there's a lot of disabled people there and, they're Scottish as well. It's in Northamptonshire, but they came down from, Scotland to work in the steelworks 

Matt M: skilled communities. 

It was described as the unhappiest place to live,

Absolutely made to measure for me. I went there and I'm thinking, Oh, I'm gonna give them a voice. I'm gonna come in on my charger and give, give these disabled people a voice. ‘Blimey’. Uh, that didn't happen.. They ended up giving me a voice because I am in no way an expert about, Cause when you disabled people think, oh, he understands about all disabilities and stuff.

 And I met these, these guys and they absolutely transformed my life. Abso, I, I can't find words to what it was like being six year old again and seeing that painting they trans, cuz everything that I thought I knew went out and I thought I wanna start making art about them and with them. Share their stories and we are gonna, cuz they're not just people I work with. I never say goodbye to the groups I work with. I have a commitment but it, it alls the kind of work that I make now, which is kind of political and, about the activism and changing places, toilets and all that kind came from that experience in Corby and realizing that there was an opportunity and a platform here to , not change the way that I do my work, but change who I make the work about.

It's become a movement. It's, um, it, it's spread throughout the UK. So all these groups I've worked with are part of that. Now. They come to exhibitions. Anthony, who I met in Corby, wouldn't sit on a table, you know, with he, he wouldn't be interested, wouldn't engage.

He came to my exhibition. He comes. So these guys, and it's, the ripples are now going as fa Japan next year, so we are linking disability groups up with Corby and, this new ground in London and Portsmouth. And so all those acorns that were planted years ago are starting to flourish now and grow.

music

Matt M: I wanted to move on to your work today. , looking at , your portfolios, it's, I mean, it's amazing.

It's so varied. I mean, if someone asked you to, describe yourself as an artist . What, what is your, brand 

Jason WM: in My head, I'm employed by the Bino and they've suddenly, decided to, to start going down in Marxist political route, but they want like a PG rating. So I'm still working in the 1970s. So it's very much about my childhood, very much about kind of personal stuff, but it's become more universal. So I'm making art about really, challenging stuff that the disabled community  are facing. One of the guys that works for, Mega Inflatables, who build my inflatable sculptures, 

Matt M: which I love. I mean, I just having to say that's a fantastic 

Jason WM: piece of work.

Thank you. He said, what's the DNR stand for Jason? And I said, It's do not resuscitate. He said, ‘blimey, that's dark, isn't it?’ And I said, Well, why [00:25:00] do you think? And we entered it into a discussion about it. And that's, I call it Trojan horse art, people come along to me, Oh, it's colorful.

It's, it's 

Matt M: But That's what I mean about that. cuz it's, it is humorous and it's playful. And then woven through that is this very serious narrative are you trying to createthat sort of personal conflict? Or is it this just the work, the way the work manifests?

Jason WM: it's just the way, but I, I don't believe in shouting. I don't, I try not to. I mean, I am angry. There's a lot to be angry about, but, if you shout at people

that're not interested, what do you, I'm, I'm prepared to be kind of an entertainer and, and be, be funny and, approachable and accessible, all those kind of things in order to make my point. 

sculpture park insert:

Jason WM: Recently I met with Claire Lilly's,  the head person at the Yorkshire Sculpture Park, which is an incredible, art venue. I'd say the best one in, in the country. And meeting her was life changing. First of all, she read the work really well. Cause I think I hide things really well in, within the work. So, Cause it's all very bright and jolly and all that kind of stuff. And she said, it's all about death, isn't it?

And I thought, crikey it is.

I mean, the skull's everywhere, even though smiling faces, it's very kind of Mexican 

pause

Jason WM: I think if you're told as a kid that you're gonna die at a young age, I think it's, well I had a, a child of trauma. She said “your work is about childhood.”

And it's about trauma I sat there and it was, honestly, it was the most incredible sort of cathartic, existential whatever experience. Having somebody read your work so well , but also challenging you to answer the questions and think, intellectually about, all that kind of stuff.

But you can have very kind of serious messages and be profound, be political, be all those things. be the person you dreamed of be in as a kid, even though I didn't know what it was. 

I can only do what I do and that's, that's for good or [00:27:00] bad. That's how I see the world, you know? And I do genuinely see the things that I make.

I see.

They're real people. Lowry once, uh, did a painting called ‘Cripples’ in Stockport. And somebody said, “Oh, there's not that many cripples in Stockport”. He said, “You're not looking hard enough.” And I always thought that was such a beautiful, um, beautiful thing.

musiccreative provocation

Matt M: we like to ask our, interviewees if they could set a provocation,, to the listeners. It can be anything from an action that you want 'em to take a thought, an idea,

so did you have something that you wanted?

to

Jason WM: Yeah, yeah. I mean, for tutors, lecturers, I think there's a really sort of simple thing . Well, hopefully it is, but it's be the hero be when I was a kid and in Darbyshire on the foundation and Alan Chat was talking about this stuff and he was like, monumental. So inspiring and God liked me, I thought ‘blimey’, I wish I could be like him. [00:28:00] He was my hero and sometimes as lecturers we, you can forget that wonder and how important that wonder is to inspire cuz out there there's a little geezer or ‘Sheeza’  Absolutely wanting to be inspired,

it's so important because 30 years on, I'm still talking about that and how powerful that was to me. The best advice I was ever given as a student, is don't make excuses for not making him work. Make the work, Do it. Do it. I even stuff that I leave, I come back to it and I will finish it.

, I'll hold my hands up. I, I produce some terrible artwork, but I've been committed to it and I've learned from it. Don't ever throw anything away. Learn from it. Do it, do it, do it. It's worth it.

 You will get to where you need to be and be authentic.[00:29:00] 

music 

Matt M: Thank you ever so much, Jason. I mean, it's been absolutely wonderful, inspiring, and just brilliant to listen to you. So thank you very much for joining us. 

Jason WM: you.

Matt M: Thank you for listening to this episode of Teach Inspire, Create.

So I just want to give a massive thank you to Jason for making time and being so generous with his insights today. It's been brilliant to understand about how education helped to shape his career and how he's paid that back through the education work that he's done. , I really love Jason's work and I'm definitely gonna seek out an opportunity to see it in real life.

if you want to know more about Jason and his work, you can follow him on Instagram at Jason Wilson Mill. Or visit his website www.jwmartist.co.uk. You can find these links in our episode description.

 I hope that you've enjoyed this podcast. Please do subscribe and share with a friend, and please rate us some reviewers wherever you get your podcasts. It's incredibly helpful to us to understand what you think of this show.[00:30:00] 

Thanks for listening, and until next time, take care.