Challenging the photography scene with Suzannah Gabriel

Suzannah is an up-and-coming fashion photographer who recently graduated from the London College of Fashion with an MA in Fashion Photography. 

 Suzannah’s projects focus on social issues which resonate with her and her community and she cleverly collides them with traditional fashion photography techniques. Her final project has been published in multiple photographic magazines and across many news outlets.

In this episode, Suzannah explores why determination is key, and stresses the importance of experimentation in photography.

Instagram handle: @suzzyparlaa

 Suzannah’s website: www.suzannahgabriel.com 

Discover more about UAL Awarding Body qualifications.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Matt M: Hello and welcome to the Teach Inspire Create Podcast. I'm your host, Matt Moseley, Chief Examiner for Art and Design at UAL Awarding Body.

[00:00:09] Each episode I speak to artists and creative industry leaders about three main themes, teaching, inspiring and creating. We talk about their experience of teaching and being taught, who or what inspires them, and we explore how they foster creativity in their work with the hope of showing you that there are infinite ways to be creative in the arts.

[00:00:33] Today my guest is Suzannah Gabriel. She's a fashion photographer who recently graduated from the London College of Fashion with an MA in Fashion Photography. Projects throughout her course explored her interests in fine arts and collided them with traditional fashion photography techniques, including her final project, which has been published in multiple photographic magazines and across many news outlets. I'm really excited to talk to her about her work.

[00:01:00] There is a transcript available for this episode. Please click the link in the episode description so you can read as you listen. 

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[00:01:07] Matt M: Welcome Suzannah. Thank you for joining us. It's lovely to have you here today.

[00:01:11] Suzannah G: Thanks for having me.

[00:01:13] Matt M: So we're gonna talk a little bit to you about where kind of creativity started for you. So, maybe thinking back to school experiences and within that, people that maybe had a significant impact on you in those early stages.

[00:01:29] Suzannah G: Yeah, I mean, I've always been quite introverted, so creativity just allowed me to express myself without an audience in front of me watching me. So, photography came in hand. I used to take pictures of buildings and just walk around. I like being alone as well, so photography was the barrier between being alone and then with people and trying to socialize in that aspect.

[00:01:50] But yeah, that's how it started and I've been lucky to have, or blessed rather, to have mentors along the way. And actually I kind have to thank my mum as well because I'm from South East London and typically there aren't that many sort of opportunities, if you like, there. So I took the plunge with my mum, to go to sixth form in West London. And I guess that was the pivotal moment within my life and my career, where I was partnered with a mentor and she kind of assisted through the transition from sixth form college to university. So I spoke about all things finance, CVs, interviews.

[00:02:24] Matt M: Okay. So not just about creative stuff, but about how to establish yourself in industry?

[00:02:29] Suzannah G: Yeah, it was a real life transition actually. And I guess that also helped my creativity cause it helped me explore and think about things in different ways.

[00:02:35] Matt M: That's cool cause some of your work now, which we're gonna talk about in depth, but some of it's about that transition, isn't it, and journeys and changing.

[00:02:45] Do you think some of that's maintained then in the work that you make, some of their advice and guidance?

[00:02:50] Suzannah G: I mean, to an extent. But it's definitely helped me explore myself as a person and try to interrogate the way I think about things and the way I see things. And in turn, that's mirrored in the work I produce. Whether that's personal experiences or things that happen in the world that I can relate to.

[00:03:09] Matt M: So the mentor, did they do anything in particular in the way that they worked with you that helped you? Did they ask you specific questions or challenge you?

[00:03:19] Suzannah G: It was more sort of, “what do I wanna gain from it?” And I think that helps because, I mean, they can think about order, things that might help me, but it's for me. So it is driven by myself. And funnily enough, the mentor I had isn't even creative, they work in IT . But these transferable skills are always quite helpful, and helped to build me as a character.

[00:03:41] Matt M: Is that where your passion for photography kind of moved from being something you did outside of education and came in?

[00:03:49] Suzannah G: photography was never the option to be honest.

[00:03:51] Matt M: Oh, okay. Right, yeah.

[00:03:52] Suzannah G: It just kind of happened, in a weird but wonderful way. And I had an opportunity to do my undergrad at UAL. But because it was so focused in fashion and at the time of applying I didn't really know what I wanted to do, so I applied to do media communications, which is a lot more broader. And that helped because I'm so indecisive in terms of what path I wanna go into within the media. So doing that subject helped me to understand and pinpoint that actually it is photography that I like doing. And then from there, just kept going.

[00:04:23] Matt M: Did you have an idea where you might end up when you joined that course?

[00:04:28] Suzannah G: Not really, actually. It was hard though because I enjoyed every single strand. We did new media, advertising, PR, women, politics and media, photography and video, and a few others. And I enjoyed all of them, so it was hard to sort of pinpoint exactly what I wanted to do, but I did enjoy photography.

[00:04:46] The only downside, or the only thing that was quite conflicting, was the comments. The lecturers weren't really resonating with my work and stuff, and that kind of had a negative impact on me because I saw that as, “are they critiquing my ability to do photography or is it just that the work doesn't resonate?”

[00:05:03] Matt M: What sort of comments were they making?

[00:05:05] Suzannah G: Just like not creative enough. Those were the main ones.

[00:05:10] Matt M: Okay, absolutely. That's quite difficult to hear, isn't it? And I guess, did you have to find a sort of certain level of resilience to move through that?

[00:05:19] Suzannah G: A lot of resilience. Phone calls to my mum giving me advice, embarking on a lot of research, trying to find things that were quite unique, but also retaining my voice as a photographer. And that was super important even up until my MA.

[00:05:33] Matt M: If there are students listening now who maybe have never taken any photography seriously, but are interested in it and they're interested and they might feel the same, that they're not brave enough necessarily to, or they don't feel inclined to jump in, in that, more extroverted way. What advice would you give them about getting started taking photographs? 

[00:05:55] Suzannah G: Just do it. I know that's so cliche, but honestly that's how I started and I think you learn as you do. Someone said, take a hundred photos and look through them and, activities like that also help because you are just exploring, you are looking through your eye as well. And no one can take pictures like you, so even if you think your work is quite uninteresting, somebody else might relate to it and feel connected to it. And just it might change them in a way. That sounds… yeah, but it’s true.

[00:06:24] Matt M: Yeah.

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[00:06:28] Matt M: Is it important to have a creative or supportive community around you?

[00:06:32] Suzannah G: Yeah, a hundred percent.

[00:06:34] Matt M: That’s something that you'd recommend to people?

[00:06:35] Suzannah G: Mm-hmm. I wish I did that a bit more on my MA course though, cause I didn't really make much friends on the course. But that's something I would definitely recommend doing. That network of people that are in the same position as you in terms of on an MA course that could support and stuff, but outside of that I was always talking to other creatives that I met doing photography and they also just assisted. So yeah, I was never like alone all the time.

[00:06:57] Matt M: What's the kind of sorts of issues that you find the creative community run into?

[00:07:02] Suzannah G: I think as I've sort of gone through the photography journey, I find that there are close knit groups and sometimes it can be hard to sort of break through those. Especially if I'm reaching out to brands or artists, like everyone has their own sort of clique, if you like. So it can be quite hard to break into that. And also finding photographers who are open enough to discuss those things, whether that's because they're established already or, I dunno, or they just wanna retain their own clientele, which is fair enough. But on the other hand, I have met collectors, black female photographers, and UK black female photographer groups, who are both equally as supportive. So even on the MA course when I found them, that was quite a nice sort of time to find them because again, I didn't have much friends on the course and so forth.

[00:07:51] Matt M: You then went on to do a Masters in Fashion Photography, which is a bit of a departure maybe from your undergraduate. So was there something that influenced the decision to move in the fashion photography direction?

[00:08:03] Suzannah G: So, when I finished my undergraduate, I did placements through the university.

[00:08:07] I wrote a book for a company that was in a sort of fashion space. It's on Amazon, I get no money from it though. But it was a great experience and I was writing a book on a fashion brand, and that planted the seeds into my interest in fashion.

[00:08:21] But even prior to that, I did sort of fashion summer schools here at UAL. So fashion has always been the interest, but never to the grand scheme of doing a masters within it. But I found the MA Fashion Photography course at LCF and I sort of applied last minute. And I saw that we didn't have to write a sort of 10, 20,000 word essay so I was like, okay, relieved. Um, so I applied and then they accepted, and I was quite surprised because my portfolio wasn't the strongest at the time. But Paul Bevan was so encouraging and saying that he could see that there's potential and, very encouraging. So that helped as I sort of progressed.

[00:08:57] Matt M: So obviously you arriving to this fashion MA from a media undergraduate, so how was it for you integrating into the fashion MA?

[00:09:06] Suzannah G: It was actually quite hard, mainly because everyone else's work looked so glossy and there was this sort of film aesthetic, which was so like held upon. Yeah, it was hard. And even the first sort of project when I presented my embroidery on paper, I had a few side eyes, like, and then I also felt like, “am I on the right course? Am I supposed to be here?” Especially when everyone else's work was so like fashion-esque and like, nicely produced. My work was quite rugged in a way. I dunno but it made me feel like maybe I wasn't on the right course. And, I was like, okay, do I change my approach to photography?

[00:09:49] It kind of was like imposter syndrome as well. But then when I presented it, the lecturers were saying comments that, “okay, this is quite interesting”. They hadn't seen this before. And, maybe keep going with it, see where it goes. Try to find meaning behind it cause it was very much experimental. 

[00:10:04] Matt M: Yeah, cause I can imagine for the lecturers, it is really exciting.  Your work through the MA that I've been looking at through your, the website links and stuff is, you know, it's not garments front and center and it's not glossy, is it? You have a very different aesthetic. 

[00:10:18] Matt M: Cause that's really interesting cause looking at your MA work, you maintain quite a fine art approach don't you, with your photography. Can we talk a little bit about embroidery? Cause I'm really interested about where that came from. 

[00:10:31] Suzannah G: Yeah. Actually, with embroidering on paper that was just me experimenting, and actually that was driven by my course leader, Paul Bevan. And, he just said, use this time to experiment, we're at the beginning of the course, don't think too ahead of your final project. And that really helped actually, because that's when I thought, “okay, let me just do something I've never done before”. And I saw it, and in fact it was Melissa Zexter that I saw cause there aren't that many embroidery…

[00:10:58] Matt M: Yeah, it's an unusual way of working.

[00:11:00] Suzannah G: Yeah. But I saw her work and I thought, okay, this is quite cool. And I just started embroidery on paper and it just carried on, it was just experimentation. And then as I progressed on the masters, that's when meaning came to it. 

[00:11:13] Matt M: I think that's really important for students, to take influence from things that they see, isn't it? And directly explore and experiment with those processes in their own work. So what was the first project in which embroidery started to really appear in the work?

[00:11:27] Suzannah G: Fragmented. It started off being a self-portrait project, but then I introduced other people towards the very end. And that wasn't something I wanted to do necessarily, but I thought, why not share this with other people? Which is something I've been doing in my work. And, the use of thread here was quite, it was sort of in a painful way. So this project was an investigation into the interplay between social media and mental health. So that was the working title for the project and, at the time I think Caroline Flack committed Suicide. And I thought, “oh my gosh. I wonder how other people are feeling through the hands of social media”.

[00:12:10] Suzannah G: But I wanted to do it on my own behalf. Cause I was also going through that at the time with constantly comparing myself to other people, looking at other people's work, the whole imposter syndrome. And I wanted to sort of play around with that notion within my work. And so I did self-portraits and there's pictures of me in a bath full of water almost drowning myself. Hands on bath tiles. And, there was fake blood on my hand but I changed it to black and white and then, embroidered red thread on my hands to symbolize that.

[00:12:42] There was a picture of a girl with her head upside down, and that picture is called the Upside Down World. The picture of a hand with red thread is called Blood on Your Hands. It's also questioning who’s to be held responsible for these things. Is it the people in charge? So the sort of CEOs of Instagram and so forth, like who's regulating what's put out there?

Matt M: Yeah, who’s responsible, who’s accountable for these things?

[00:13:08] Matt M: So one of the ways that you were gathering information and inspiration for photography projects was going out and interviewing people directly.

[00:13:17] Suzannah G: I wouldn't say going out, it was very much in my bedroom.

[00:13:20] Matt M: But still even then the principle of, of reaching out to people directly to hear their stories. How did that process come around for you?

[00:13:28] Suzannah G: It was a research method. And, it was very much from the standpoint of safety. Building rapport was super important because, again, like myself, a lot of these people were quite introverted, and they weren't necessarily comfortable in front of a camera. 

[00:13:42] Matt M: So how did you identify them?

[00:13:44] Suzannah G: Funnily enough, I don't notice them. I just put a call out and then they just want to come to you.

[00:13:48] Um, I've been quite lucky to not have to ever sort of search for people. I don't know if that's lucky though, or if that's maybe something I should start doing cause it helps to filter. But the people that do come, they always have interesting stories.

[00:14:02] So once I hear all their stories, I can then pinpoint what I want to focus on within that. I've been fortunate enough to have quite a nice pile of stories.

[00:14:11] So because of Covid I had to do it all over Zoom, which is helpful, cause I didn't want to go up and down London meeting all these people. But, also safety because a lot of these people that I work with, I've never met them before, I meet them on Instagram. So by having those interviews it's like, okay, I can confirm you are real, no problem. And help them open up, because a lot of them are quite shy in front of a camera I find, so if they've seen me on the computer screen, It usually helps.

[00:14:38] And even moving on, that would always be a requirement for me because it does help both parties. It helps me and helps them. But of course it also helped me to just understand their stories in the comfort of their home as well. If I had sort of invited them over to my university, in a canteen, I don't think they would've been as open. 

[00:14:56] Matt M: When you are interviewing them, are you starting to visualize the kind of photograph you're gonna take? It appears to you does it?

[00:15:01] Suzannah G: Yeah, I make notes and then I select the quotes.

[00:15:04] So with One of One, all the texts that was embroidered are direct quotes from the interviews, based on their practices as creatives. 

[00:15:13] One of One is actually self-esteem amongst creative women. Not just their bodies, but their ability to do what they do. It was sort of me sharing my own experiences with them and hearing what they had to say in terms of their practice and what makes them unique.

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[00:15:27] Matt M: Tutors are always encouraging students to go and do this, but I think they sometimes feel worried about controlling the environment. So, but as long as they work safely and they plan it properly, then it can be a really effective way of working.

[00:15:42] Suzannah G: Absolutely. Research was also quite key as well. I think that's when I also found my style and I loved portraits and each image just has quite a warm tone to it as well. So there is that warmth within the images.

how do you chose what to photograph - describing Black Hurts 

[00:15:56] Matt M: How do you make decisions about what you are going to take photos of or the images that you're gonna use? 

[00:16:02] Suzannah G: It's very much through personal experiences, or just what's happening within the world. 

[00:16:07] Matt M: Your MA sort of built to this crescendo moment. You'd created lots of these other projects through the process of that and then Black Hurts, you know, is your culmination of that. 

[00:16:18] Suzannah G: Yeah. Black Hurts was influenced by Black Lives Matter, and the killing of George Floyd, Breanna Taylor within the US. But it was important to also explain that Black Lives Matter didn't just happen in the US, it actually started here in the UK. I wanted to also look at it from the viewpoint of us as Londoners and young, black adults within London and see how they felt about it. Cause I was so hurt and quite emotional for a few weeks about it, cause even though it happens all the time, seeing it on a grand scheme, like in the news and everyone talking about it, it was quite emotional. 

[00:16:53] It was quite hard as well cause it's the first time I’d touched on race at all. I always kind of shied away from it cause, and even on the course I think I, well I was the only black woman or black person on my course. And I didn't want to be the sort of poster girl for race, even on my undergrad, so I just shied away from it. 

[00:17:12] But yeah, when it came to presenting the work, it was a bit hard as well because again, very much race focused. I had feedback such as we've heard these stories before.

[00:17:21] Matt M: How did you feel about that feedback?

[00:17:22] Suzannah G: That was, I had to just swallow my, yeah, it was hard. One of the sort of shoots was called Stopped and Searched, and I was talking about police brutality.

[00:17:32] “Oh, we've heard that before”. And it's just like, okay, but you know, these are their stories and it continues to happen. So, even if you have heard it before, this is from my perspective.

[00:17:42] Yeah, hearing that was quite hard and it made me reconsider my project numerous times and I remember talking to my mum about it. I spoke to Shades of Noir who were super helpful. They're based in UAL and they were helpful in terms of helping me understand that I am explaining my work in a clear way and that it's not necessarily how I'm explaining it, it's just maybe their perception of it, which is fair enough.

[00:18:07] Matt M: You had to be quite determined to see this through then.

[00:18:10] Suzannah G: Yeah. There were times I did give up. 

[00:18:11] Matt M: Do you sort of feel like the feedback was trying to encourage you into a more, usually seen type of fashion photography for their MA, a sort of safer space?

[00:18:20] Suzannah G: Yeah. But I wanted to completely go away from that. And I think I've done that throughout the work I've produced anyway. 

[00:18:27] Matt M: Well, it speaks to the effectiveness of your work, isn't it? If people are sort of, finding it challenging, you know, they're having to ask themselves questions through, then that's successful, isn't it?

[00:18:37] Can you talk us through that project? 

[00:18:38] Suzannah G: Yeah. Black Hurts, it's an investigation into liminality and double consciousness amongst young, black adults in London. I had 13 subjects all found on Instagram. We had interviews on Zoom. We sort of laughed and cried about the stories and, there was no budget, so nothing at all. So I had to sort of, again, play with creativity and where to shoot these people. It was a mixture of studio shoots, shoots in my church’s studio, and I think there was an outdoor shoot at some point. And I worked with stylists for the first time, and it was my first fashion produced shoot as well.

[00:19:17] Across the board I worked with 40 people and two of them helped to create the book, they were graphic designers, fresh out of university. And the project has been published internationally, exhibited in numerous places. One being alongside Rankin, another being at LCF, which is like a full circle moment. And it continues to just grow.

[00:19:39] Matt M: How did you go about balancing the requirements of a fashion photography MA, the idea that you want to introduce these themes and topics, cause obviously they're resonating massively with you, but also not wanting to put yourself front and center. How did you, how did you navigate that?

[00:19:57] Suzannah G: So I kind of used the thread aspect as sort of customization, which is like sustainability, fashion.

[00:20:04] It kind of works in that way but of course through beauty and the garments that the subjects were wearing, and I kind of wanted to integrate that into the interviews I had with them. So the interviews influence each sort of imagery within the project. And the words are also taken from those interviews as well.

[00:20:22] Matt M: Well, it's a brilliant body of work and a great way to finish, you know, your MA. How was it presenting the final project or these projects through your MA, as you mentioned some difficult crits and conversations.

[00:20:36] Suzannah G: During those presentations, I'm always quite nervous when I first start talking. It can be quite nerve wracking, but again, because I'm comfortable with the work I produce and I believe in the work I produce and also because I know where those ideas have stemmed from, it helps to sort of communicate it that way. Of course, there are times people may not understand the sort of notions behind the work. 

[00:20:59] And so again, that was another added task to ensure that all those things are defined as clear as possible. Black Hurts, for example, touched on liminality and double consciousness and, when I said those words, everyone looked at me like, “what are you talking about?”

[00:21:15] Matt M: Yeah. Well, I was gonna say, would you mind just defining those for people listening?

[00:21:18] Suzannah G: Liminality is just an inability to fit in somewhere. So, It's the in-betweenness.

[00:21:24] Double consciousness is, as a black female, is living my life in two different lenses. So living it through one lens, how people who are not like me probably may perceive me, but also through another way, through my brothers and sisters and a black community who understands some of the sort of, yeah. I remember I said those words they all looked at me. But yeah, again, it's making sure that those things are defined and understanded.

[00:21:48] Matt M: So how did you explore those photographically? 

[00:21:51] Suzannah G: So liminality was through an image from the shoot My Melanin is Not a Disease, and the image was a photo of a girl's sort of, upper shoulder to sort of her lower back, and there were words embroidered on her skin.

[00:22:07] And those words essentially just said, “hashtag Black Lives Matter. I'm black, no you’re not, I'm mixed raced”, so that sort of conflict and tension between who does she identify herself as from herself, but also the outside world. That was sort of how I expressed liminality as one example.

[00:22:26] That could be double consciousness as well, double consciousness was through, Stopped and Searched. And there were two images where one, he had a hoodie and then one he was in a suit. The one in the hoodie said I was stopped and searched by the police because I was wearing a hoodie to the shop, something along those lines. And then the suit one was saying that three days later, the same policeman said hi to him because he was in a suit.

[00:22:50] Matt M: But didn't recognize him from the stop and search? Yeah, I mean, that's incredibly powerful stuff, isn't it? So that information came through the interview that you had with that individual.

[00:23:00] Suzannah G: Mmhmm. Yeah. All through lived experiences.

[00:23:03] Matt M: Amazing. Great work.

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[00:23:05] Matt M: So when you're on a shoot and you are obviously, as you say, you're managing a stylist, you might have other crew there that you're managing. And you mentioned that sometimes you feel quite introverted and you like to work alone. How do you manage those aspects of yourself and then how do you then manage all of those different moving parts of all those different people?

[00:23:23] Suzannah G: It's funny because when I'm photographing, all the shyness goes away.

[00:23:27] And I can be quite, I am empathetic in the way I approach people anyway, so it is always from a calm place. But because I already know what I want to do and what, how I want it to look… So even makeup artists, when, and I love makeup, when like the eyeshadow isn't symmetrical, I'm just like, “okay, add a bit more here”. And, I know what I want it to look like, so I just communicate that.

[00:23:49] Matt M: So you have to be quite assertive and quite clear in order to…?

[00:23:52] Suzannah G: But in a nice way, of course.

[00:23:53] Matt M: Yeah. But then ultimately you've got an, as you say, you've got an image in your head that you're trying to achieve.

[00:23:59] Suzannah G: Exactly, so if it doesn't look like that, then…

[00:24:01] Matt M: Yeah, it's gotta change. 

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[00:24:03] Matt M: So the work that you're making at the moment, is that directed by yourself or are you working for clients for projects or?

[00:24:11] Suzannah G: So the client work actually is more events, which is interesting. But the sort of editorial portrait stuff, personal projects are all directed by myself and I'm still working with Instagram to find these models and make up artists and so forth. Yeah.

[00:24:25] Matt M: Social media, you've had a, well not like a love hate relationship a little with social media, but you've had to learn to engage with it. How did you do that?

[00:24:34] Suzannah G: I use it all the time. So I just thought, okay, I use it to post my work, post my achievements and post the sad stuff as well. And I find that actually, if you use it correctly it can be super powerful. Even though I disliked using it all the time because of sort of mental stuff and, but having hidden my like counts and stuff that actually helps. Because it's no longer, “oh, why are they not liking my work?” You know? 

[00:25:01] Matt M: So do you think it's important then for creatives to be quite mindful of themselves when they're using it?

[00:25:05] Suzannah G: Yeah. But also when I speak to other creatives, even though it may look like they're living the life of all these clients and stuff, a lot of them aren't. And I always remind myself, don't compare yourself cause you don't know what they're charging, for example. I know a lot of photographers are charging like really low amounts and that may look like they're getting loads of… so yeah, just don't compare yourself.

[00:25:29] Matt M: And it's that age old conundrum of people posting what looks like the best version of their, of their life, but it's…

[00:25:35] Suzannah G: That's not the reality.

[00:25:36] Matt M: In terms of thinking about making a living as a photographer, what are the challenges with that?

[00:25:41] Suzannah G: I think it's really about who you know. And I know a lot of people say it's not your…

[00:25:46] Matt M: It's not what you know it’s who you know.

[00:25:48] Suzannah G: Yeah. That's true. I mean, what you know is important as well, but it's definitely finding the right people to connect you to these opportunities. A lot of the opportunities that I've had have been through recommendations. There was one client actually that I have and I'm still in contact with them, and I was only supposed to cover for one sort of segment of a shoot, but ended up doing both days and then they hired me for the events and then they just keep hiring me for their events.

[00:26:13] Matt M: So is it important to maintain those ongoing relationships?

[00:26:17] Suzannah G: Absolutely. 

[00:26:18] Matt M: How do you do that? 

[00:26:19] Suzannah G: It's definitely quality. When they saw the way I worked during the first shoot, they were like super impressed. I worked quite quickly and they were happy with the portraits and stuff. So yeah, once they see that, they're just like, okay. And actually that's how it happens as well. When a client's happy with you, they tend to stick with you.

[00:26:36] They don't just work with you and then look elsewhere. Because it's easier for them as well.

[00:26:41] Matt M: Yeah, it's a relief, isn't it, to find a good photographer that you can…

[00:26:44] Suzannah G: … keep working with.

[00:26:45] Matt M: And so, when you are taking portraits for them at those events, do you have your own style or house style that you are developing?

[00:26:54] Suzannah G: Yeah. It's candid. But it's quite an empathetic way to approach it, so it's not me sticking my camera in their face. It's sort of approaching them, asking them for a photo and then allowing them to be comfortable. Sometimes I show them the pictures, but I try not to because it slows down the work, and the final images are quite warm in color. There's a little focus to it, without getting too technical.

[00:27:18] Matt M: That's great. So, I think that's one of the things some students struggle with, is about finding their own voice through photography or finding an aesthetic that they want to commit to. So they end up making photos that just look different all the time. Do you think it's important to find a flow through your work and your own identity?

[00:27:38] Suzannah G: Uh, yes, it's important. I looked at a lot of other photographers. And I think that's the first place to start really, researching what's already out there, and then just experimenting and then, you'll find your voice through that way. That's super important. Research development is key in photography. 

[00:27:58] Matt M: So you've gotta be looking all of the time? Do you research in specific spaces or do you try to challenge yourself in that as well and look outside of what you would normally just automatically go to?

[00:28:12] Suzannah G: Yeah, I don't look outside as much, but I probably should actually. I would definitely encourage that and advise that you look both inwards and outwards. Even if you don't necessarily like the outcome of that image, there is something that you can always pick, whether that's a lighting for example, or the pose.

[00:28:30] Matt M: And are there places that you'd like to see your work? 

[00:28:32] Suzannah G: I've been quite fortunate enough to be exhibited in numerous places. Published in the Guardian, Dazed, Vice. That's all great. But yeah, I want to continue just pushing my work out to different avenues. A billboard would be cool.

[00:28:46] Matt M: Yeah. I mean, I think your work is incredibly powerful and really important. So yeah, I hope to see galleries and print publications popping up all over the place.

[00:28:56] Suzannah G: Fingers crossed

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[00:28:57] Matt M: What we do like to do is to offer our guests the opportunity to set a provocation for the listeners. Now, the provocation can be a direct action you want them to take today or across the next period of time, or thoughts, or anything. Do you have something that you'd like to offer to the listeners for them to think about?

[00:29:21] Suzannah G: I'll say don't niche yourself too early. Yeah. The trouble is, a lot of the time there's this pressure and focus on what's your niche and it kind of feels like you won't make it without a niche. That's how much pressure there is. Even now, I still have those, have that pressure of what's your niche and have you found your niche yet?

[00:29:45] And the words can be quite daunting, especially if you are just starting out. So yeah, definitely experiment, try different things out and then through that process you will find the niche that they keep begging you for.

[00:30:00] Matt M: Brilliant. Thank you, Suzannah, for your time today and for being so incredibly generous with your insights and talking to us so honestly and openly about your work. It's been wonderful.

[00:30:10] Suzannah G: No, thank you for having me.

[00:30:12] Matt M: You're very welcome.

[00:30:12] Suzannah G: Thank you.

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[00:30:13] Matt M: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Teach Inspire Create podcast, and thank you to Suzannah for sharing your work with us, it's fantastic. A really brilliant new photographer exploring some really important issues, I'm really excited to see where Suzanah's career takes her in the future. If you want to know more about Suzannah and her work, you can follow her on Instagram at @suzzyparlaa. That's @ SU Z Z Y P A R L A A, or on her website, www.suzannahgabriel.com.

[00:30:43] You'll find a link to both of these in our episode description. We really hope you enjoyed this podcast. If you did, please subscribe and why not share with a friend? And please do rate us and review us where you get your podcasts. It's so helpful for us to understand what you're enjoying and what we can do better. 

[00:31:02] Sadly, this is the last episode of this series of Teach, Inspire, Create. We've massively enjoyed making these for you, and we hope you've really enjoyed listening to them.

[00:31:10] We look forward to seeing you again for the next series. Take care. Bye bye.