Teach Inspire Create

The value of an open mindset, with Opera vocalist Rob Gildon

• Rob Gildon • Season 1 • Episode 2

Share episode

To access the available transcript please use the following link: https://bit.ly/3JjeDsc

Rob Gildon, world recognised baritone and vocal animateur, was a recipient of the renowned Garsington Opera Prize and has performed in countless Opera productions around the Globe. Rob has a passion for education, and alongside his own performance work he is a mentor for Music for Youth and a Britten Pears Arts Community Ambassador for Snape Maltings.

He believes in the creative open mindset of being driven by curiosity, finding inspiration in diversity, criticism and the everyday surrounding.

 In this episode explore how openness and kindness are key to making a significant contribution to the world of the arts and how these values can guide new generations.

Discover more about UAL Awarding Body qualifications.

Matt Moseley:

Hello, and welcome to the Teach, Inspire Create podcast. I'm your host, Matt Moseley, Chief Examiner for Art and Design at the UAL Awarding Body. In this series, I'll be talking to artists and creative industry leaders under the lenses of three main themes: Teaching, Inspiring, and Creating.

Matt Moseley:

Today, my guest is Rob Gildon. So who is Rob? Rob is a worldwide recognised operatic baritone singer and vocal animateur. He was a recipient of the renowned Garsington Opera prize and has performed in countless opera productions around the globe. Rob has a passion for education, and alongside his own performance work, he's a mentor for Music for Youth and the Britten Pears Arts Community Ambassador for Snape Maltings. He believes in the creative open mindset of being driven by curiosity, finding inspiration in diversity, criticism and the everyday surrounding. In our conversation today, we're going to explore how openness and kindness are key to making a significant contribution to the world of the arts and how these values can guide new generations.

Matt Moseley:

There is a transcript available for this episode. Please click the link in the episode description so you can read as you listen.

Speaker 2:

Teach.

Speaker 3:

Teach.

Speaker 4:

Teach.

Speaker 5:

Teach.

Speaker 6:

Teach.

Speaker 7:

Teach.

Matt Moseley:

Hi, Rob.

Robert Gildon:

Hi.

Matt Moseley:

Welcome. Thank you very much for joining us for the Teach Inspire Create podcast.

Robert Gildon:

I'm delighted to be here.

Matt Moseley:

Well we're incredibly grateful and excited to have you, so thank you very much.

Robert Gildon:

I should say, you shouldn't be too excited. I mean, obviously I'm thrilled that you're excited, but let's build up to that.

Matt Moseley:

Well we'll let the listeners be the judges of that.

Robert Gildon:

Exactly.

Matt Moseley:

But no, we are super excited and grateful to have your time today, so thank you very much. So I think we'll dive straight in.

Robert Gildon:

Do.

Matt Moseley:

In your mind, do you have an inspirational teacher, good or bad or an inspirational education experience that's informed your practice or where you are today?

Robert Gildon:

Do you know what, I think it changes. And I suppose I should say there should be one person that I thought, "Wow, they changed my life." But actually, I think every day I learn something new and I feel really lucky that I work with colleagues, but also engage with young people, and I think I'm challenged by it. But I think on a day-to-day basis, if you ask me what inspires me and who inspires me, I really think it's trying to be as open as possible to what is said in a room, to listening to new music, even a situation like this I think is a really learning experience because it makes you start to formulate kind of a viewpoint, maybe think about something different.

Robert Gildon:

So even now, you asking me that question makes me delve into my past a bit, "Is there someone?" And I suppose if I then look back... You're thinking, "Oh my goodness me, Rob. Shut up." There are. I suppose there were two teachers at school who were an inspiration. And there were two music teachers at school, they probably did change my life in some way, because school was dealing with growing up and being not an out gay man then I think was very difficult. And I was also at boarding school. And I went to boarding school because I got a music scholarship because I had a natural music talent. But at that school it was very difficult. But there were two music teachers who I think probably kept me sane and noticed that there were things about what I did which needed nurturing.

Robert Gildon:

So yeah, I haven't really answered your question except I suppose I think throughout my life there've been people and I hope there will continue to be people who are a huge source of inspiration. But you have to be open to that. And I think that's one of the challenges I think as you grow up in this business, or any business, is not closing doors, even though that may be challenging.

Matt Moseley:

So you talked about openness. And for me, that resonates as part of a creative mindset to be open and to challenge yourself to new experiences and to absorb information. So I wondered if there was anything specific that you do in the way that maybe you approach your work or your practice to help with that?

Robert Gildon:

Do you know, this is another little anecdote from my past.

Matt Moseley:

Great.

Robert Gildon:

When I was younger, I felt very free and open to sing because that's what I did. And then I got to a certain age when my voice broke and I think I was dealing with sexuality that I couldn't do what I used to be able to do. And I felt totally hemmed in. I couldn't really operate, I think. I couldn't be myself. And it was a really difficult time. And for about 10 years, I think I had this huge battle going on in my head where I wasn't able to be open to things because I just couldn't function. I wasn't at ease.

Robert Gildon:

So I suppose in answer to your question, what do I do in terms of how I try and be open to things, I find it challenging. I do find it challenging to be open sometimes. Sometimes it's really hard to take criticism, but what I do do is look back at that time. I remember that feeling when it really wasn't a good feeling, when I couldn't operate openly and freely. I try and remember that feeling so I can think, "I don't want to be like that. I need to be something different." And there's something exciting about launching yourself off into a different area and seeing what happens and trying not to judge too much and trying to be curious about the world out there. And I hope I can sustain that sort of curiosity really.

Robert Gildon:

So do I do anything? Not really. I just try and be in the moment. Like today, I suppose, I didn't quite know what to expect and I could have asked loads of questions about what you could have asked me. And I thought, "No, I'm just going to respond in the moment to how I feel right now on this particular day to your questions." And I think the thing is maybe tomorrow I'd feel differently.

Matt Moseley:

Great.

Robert Gildon:

Nothing's vacillate.

Matt Moseley:

Well, it sounds as though there's something in there about resilience. You mentioned not returning to a negative feeling and using that as a skill to push through any further barriers or awkwardness. Is that accurate?

Robert Gildon:

Yeah. Do you know, it's interesting. Yesterday, I did a workshop for Britten Pears Arts. I was working with a, a group of people who are elderly, some have early onset dementia. And we ended up working with about eight people group. So the person who had organised the event said this one particular woman said had she known we were going to make music, we were going to be singing, she was going to maybe do some improvisation, she probably wouldn't have turned up. But actually not knowing that and just being part of the group and going along with the group, she improvised, she sang. She sang solo. She told us about her life. So it opened a whole new door to her and a whole new world to her. A world that she could have potentially shut out.

Matt Moseley:

So is that something that's powerful about creative arts and performance that it's a vehicle to release people from some of their fears and to... We talk about creative arts as a communication tool. So your participant there is experiencing a new avenue to communicate something.

Robert Gildon:

Yes. I think there's lots of levels to it, isn't there? There's actually the shared beauty of so much out there, the shared beauty of music, there is that. But it also is a source of communication, isn't it as well? And tapping into things that maybe you didn't imagine you would be able to tap into. Does that make sense? Do you know what I mean? Because I do quite lot of work in a workshop setting, it's trying to create an environment where people do things they are surprised by. Not shocked by or horrified by. But they're doing something that they never imagined they would do.

Robert Gildon:

So I suppose it does, it's unlocking. It's unlocking people. It's about connecting with people. It's trying to face things, some fears. But also by also unlocking this, it can be really painful. That can unlock things that you don't want to as well. So there's lots of different sides to it as well. And I suppose in a lot of the work I do be it in prisons or wherever it is, yeah, it can be incredibly powerful, but it has to be guided in a way that is safe as well.

Matt Moseley:

Great. So you mentioned obviously, as someone who is an elite singer or a singer of vast experience over the course of your career-

Robert Gildon:

Can I just butt in there? It's so interesting that you call me an elite singer. I see myself as a jobbing singer.

Matt Moseley:

A jobbing singer?

Robert Gildon:

A jobbing musician.

Matt Moseley:

And why is that?

Robert Gildon:

Because I suppose it's a bit about my self-esteem, I suppose that I wouldn't want to assert myself as elite in any way. But also that's why I'm doing. I'm going from job to job. Literally, that's what I'm doing. I'm just going from job to job. And I suppose when people ask me what I do, I say I'm a singer and a performer. And then people are like, "Well, what, you sing pop music?" And I'm, "Well, no really. I suppose I do opera or whatever." So I define myself in a slightly roundabout way. And that's just partly me. But also I feel like I am, I'm just, yeah, a jobbing singer. And actually, you asked me what my aspiration was in the future. It'd be just to keep working. To keep working is a huge goal, I think, in this business, that you can sustain that and keep it going. So, yeah.

Matt Moseley:

Interesting. Well, I'd really like to come back to some of that.

Robert Gildon:

Sorry.

Matt Moseley:

No, because I think that that's really important about self perception and obviously... I'm wondering whether or not, having spoken to you and worked with you a little bit previously, one of your skills and attributes, from my perspective, is that you are very good at bringing something which feels unachievable for someone that you're teaching and makes it very achievable. So do you think that rejection of the word elite is something which enables you to share more openly?

Robert Gildon:

Yes. Yeah. I'm going to answer this in a roundabout way, which will probably annoy everyone. But I suppose the woman I work with now is a woman called Joy Mammen and she's in her eighties, and she always makes sure that you leave the room after your lesson feeling good and singing well. Now she doesn't say, "Oh, you're sound great. You're sound great, Rob." She'll make me work really hard, but she'll make me sound a lot better than when I came in.

Matt Moseley:

Right.

Robert Gildon:

And that is her goal. So I suppose my goal as a person is to help everyone who I work with feel a bit better about themselves, I think, but also sing better and learn something. And I want them to have a good time and I really invest in that.

Robert Gildon:

I'm working with a woman at the moment and she did an audition for something. She hasn't sung for years and years and years. And she didn't get the audition, she just wanted to be in the local choir. And she thought, "Well, I want to get better." And she's racked with tension and frustration and all this kind of stuff. And all I'm just trying to do is untap that bit by bit in a lesson so that maybe she'll do this audition again and she'll get in. But I want her to feel good about what she does. Because she's bright, she's really intelligent and she has a voice. She's not going to be singing at the Royal Opera House, but that doesn't matter. But she's got a voice which can communicate something and a sense of feeling. And if she can take what she learns in this lesson and go out to the world and feel good about herself, great.

Matt Moseley:

That leads me into this question is there's obviously something about working with someone who's new to singing, maybe is low in confidence, maybe has never accessed that as an art form. And what I was interested in is for your singing teacher, who's working with someone who has sung for a long time and obviously is extremely accomplished in that area, how do they continue to challenge you to find something new to work on with you to improve, when arguably you are someone who has this massive wealth of experience and confidence?

Robert Gildon:

I think singing is, and it sounds cliche, but it is a lifelong journey. Because your voice always changes. Your body always changes. Your body is the instrument, so it changes. All singers I know go and see a teacher. Because you can't hear yourself. You can't hear yourself.

Matt Moseley:

True.

Robert Gildon:

What goes out there out of your mouth, you don't really have a sense of. And I've just been working on a production recently and with a coach who's really challenging, he'll remain nameless, but he's great, he's brilliant and hard. Hard. And hard on me.

Matt Moseley:

Do you encounter that a lot in the industry, challenging personalities?

Robert Gildon:

Yeah. There's some bullies... There are some real... I think the old school was like, "That's not right. That's got to be better." Like that slightly bullying way. I think people now are much more nurturing, wanting people to... My feeling is it's no point beating people down because they're just never going to sing very well. I mean, I can't bear that. My feeling is you challenge and you say, "No, try it again, do it like this. Try it." Challenge people, but do it in a way that you make them feel good.

Matt Moseley:

And as a performer, how do you process that without wanting to just pack up and go home? What do you-

Robert Gildon:

Well, I think you talk to most singers, there's been tears in lessons. There's been, "Oh God." That's why you have to talk to certain friends who you trust. Because it's painful, it's difficult and it's emotional.

Matt Moseley:

So you use a support network.

Robert Gildon:

Yeah. But also you have to choose your support network which is a good one, as opposed to one where people are going to play you off. And that sounds brutal, but I think you need to be supported by people who are going to be honest and direct with you, but also know you as well.

Matt Moseley:

Yeah. If you live in an echo chamber where everybody says, "Everything's great." Then you'll make very little progress, won't you? All the learning is in the things that go wrong.

Robert Gildon:

It's very funny, I talk to my partner and I say, "What does that sound like?" He'll go, "It's too loud." He's so brutal with me. "No, but what do you mean by too loud?" "It's just too loud. Don't like it." But it is kind of good. It makes me think.

Matt Moseley:

Yes.

Robert Gildon:

I mean it's hard, but I have to think, "Okay, what's he trying to get out there?" He's not a musician, but he has a sense of something.

Matt Moseley:

Yeah.

Robert Gildon:

I don't know.

Matt Moseley:

And he lives with a singer, so he's listening to singing every day. So he may be a leading knowledge now unintentionally.

Robert Gildon:

Well he thinks he is.

Matt Moseley:

So I think we'll move on to our inspire section now.

Speaker 9:

Inspire.

Speaker 10:

Inspire.

Speaker 11:

Inspire.

Speaker 12:

Inspire.

Matt Moseley:

You've had a really interesting training and musical education. Has music always been in your life?

Robert Gildon:

Yeah. Yeah, so I suppose I'd say I was lucky in the fact that I had a really musical upbringing. My mum was a musician, classical musician. She did violin at the Royal College of Music, and my parents set up a music shop when I was two. So we lived above the music shop. And I suppose that was interesting as well that I was surrounded by instruments and sheet music and all this kind of stuff. And when I was younger I was a bit like, "Oh, god." But now I look back really sentimentally because actually music shops are not around, you know?

Matt Moseley:

Yes. Yeah.

Robert Gildon:

And then I went through school and blah, blah, blah. And then I got a scholarship to, I should be slightly careful about this, Wells Cathedral School, just a specialist music school. And that didn't work out for me at all. I was there seven weeks.

Matt Moseley:

Right.

Robert Gildon:

And I had this huge opportunity. It just all went pear shaped. Anyway, so then I think I went into denial for a bit. I went and had a year out, went to India. And then I went to Exeter Uni and I did a degree in Middle Eastern politics for some reason.

Matt Moseley:

Okay. So not music?

Robert Gildon:

No, because I think I was trying to like, "I've got to do something sensible. I've got to avoid all this doing anything..."

Matt Moseley:

Right.

Robert Gildon:

But you have to remember that I went to uni when tuition fees were free and I got a full grant. Do you know what I mean?

Matt Moseley:

Yeah. Did music play any role in your life at this point?

Robert Gildon:

Yeah, it did. So I was doing loads of music at uni. And loved it. But always kind of in denial. And then I did my masters and I got halfway through that and I thought, "This is not what I want to do." And I think it coincided with me dealing with my identity and sexuality and all that kind of stuff. So I then went up to London and then started doing all these jobs, like working in the box office at English National Opera, and I could sit in rehearsals and I just watched and observed and soaked it all up. And I think that's key. And I think that's something which is challenging now because I suppose a lot of those jobs, like in the box office, aren't there. Particularly with the COVID, it's been a really challenging year.

Matt Moseley:

Yes, we should touch on that.

Robert Gildon:

Totally. And I think really challenging. But I suppose that was a real learning experience for me. And then I auditioned for something called the Tanglewood Music Center in America. It was a weird thing I did. I wasn't going to go to the audition and I thought, "Well, I'm not prepared." And then I did. It worked out. Because I wouldn't always advocate doing an audition, if you don't feel right about it, I would say don't do it normally.

Matt Moseley:

Right. Interesting. So you mentioned obviously that you had a series of jobs working in theatres within the West End. What do you think is the value for someone who's potentially at the start of a career in immersing themselves in the industry in any capacity like that?

Robert Gildon:

Well personally I find it really valuable just to be a round people who are like-minded, but people also who... So in the box office, when I was there, there were writers, there were directors, the whole range of people all bundling together, sharing ideas. So I think it's a great way to share. It's a source of inspiration. Also, this business is precarious. You just don't know where it's going to lead you. And I always really admire people who get to a stage in their life and they go, "Do you know, I don't want to do singing anymore. Maybe I want to do something else in the industry." There's so many different jobs out there in this world. You go with your heart set on doing something, but actually that may not be where you are naturally best at.

Robert Gildon:

So actually, by being in an environment in theatre or opera, whatever it is, there's so many different positions. You may think, "Actually, I've sung for a bit, but actually now I want to do something else. Because PI interests me because I quite like to promote the arts in some way." Or whatever it is. So I think it's its a hand to mouth existence really and you get to see often great performers, you get to see...

Matt Moseley:

And see how professionals do it.

Robert Gildon:

Yeah. And I think it is, it's about you learn... I think I've done most of my learning by just watching.

Matt Moseley:

Rob, you mentioned earlier that you lived above a music shop when you were growing up and I'm obviously aware that whilst being a wonderful singer, you're also a multi-instrumentalist or you certainly play the piano wonderfully in my experience.

Robert Gildon:

Matt, you know that's not true.

Matt Moseley:

But what I wanted to ask is, is it really important for young people to diversify their training?

Robert Gildon:

I would go back to be curious. I'm not a great pianist. I'm a lazy pianist. But it is a useful tool for me to have some access to the piano. I think the more you know about other instruments and just getting your sense of what's going on the more you open doors to yourself. And if you're a singer, for instance, you could be in a choir, you could be in a small group, you could be in a rock band, you've got access to lots of different things. And I suppose if you're an instrumentalist as well, just opens a few more doors and opportunity to experience something more. And I think don't think necessarily that you're going to do this for a career. Do it because it actually makes you feel good. And you have the opportunity to experience some amazing music or maybe compose some music. So don't feel pressured, but I would just be curious about what people are doing and think, "Oh, that looks interesting. Maybe I'll give that a go." So don't restrict yourself by that, just be open.

Matt Moseley:

Great. Thank you, Rob. . Well, that's really interesting about the portfolio career, because that leads me on nicely to my questions about teaching. So obviously you're maintaining a really exciting performance career and operating in lots of those traditional spaces on stage performing and singing, but you're also really immersed in teaching, aren't you, in lots of different spaces. And obviously you've mentioned the participatory work that you've been doing and working in the prisons. And so it's clear that you work with people that are maybe coming to singing from an unexpected route. So I wanted to understand a little bit about the skills and techniques that you use to create that safe space to make singing and music available. How do you open them up to the idea of being a singer?

Robert Gildon:

My honest answer, I don't really know. I suppose it's by talking to people, making people feel at ease. And a lot of my work is in a workshop setting, some settings are potentially quite hostile. And going into room so that people feel like you're human. Just starting with activities where people don't have time to think too much about it. So they do it instinctively. It's like doing a quick call and response and they just copy and they're like, "Oh, I just didn't realise I did that." So I suppose that's what-

Matt Moseley:

Singing without singing..

Robert Gildon:

Yeah. And doing things they go, "Oh, that's a bit surprising. I wasn't expecting to do that." And I'm thinking about Pamela. Pamela, wasn't expecting to improvise something and lead something. And I also think about like how a baby can scream all day, can scream because their body is just in alignment and it's all balanced it's like and it just can scream and not hurt its vocal chords. Whereas when we get older, we get tied up in knots. So I suppose it's a way of trying to unravel those knots a little bit by doing it and becoming a bit childlike again, but doing it in a way which is not pretentious, is not making everyone feel stupid. But it's actually having a good laugh. And I think that's the thing is creating an environment where actually people laugh.

Matt Moseley:

They're having fun.

Robert Gildon:

Having fun, having a laugh, doing things which surprises them, but not shocking them, but just doing a little thing. And yeah, that may tie into maybe something I'll ask your group to do.

Matt Moseley:

So initially then when you meet a new group, is there some questioning? You said about talking, is it about finding out who they are as people and trying... Do you adapt or change ever in the moment to support someone?

Robert Gildon:

Yeah, I suppose I have techniques. So what I would probably do is just going around the room, just say names. So it'll be Rob, Matt. Just going around the room, just doing that. And then just getting a pulse going and then you start doing it on the pulse. So, Rob. Matt. Rob. Whatever. Matt. And then maybe you'll add Matt, Rob. And then you're starting sort of.. and then everyone starts going, "Oh, okay." And people's... Your toe wasn't tapping, but-

Matt Moseley:

It was inside!

Robert Gildon:

Inwardly.

Matt Moseley:

Yeah, yeah.

Robert Gildon:

Very quietly for the microphone.

Matt Moseley:

And then I suppose people start easing up and their toes start tapping and then you think, "Oh, that's great. So Matt's toes tapping. So great. Let's all tap our toe." So that's what I did yesterday. And then like Marjorie over there, "Oh my God. She's actually doing a bit of a shimmy. Yeah, it's great. Let's get a shimmy in." And then you add these layers and then people look at each other and they go, "Oh my God. I didn't realise I was even doing that." And that's how I build.

Matt Moseley:

So it's creating that group momentum.

Robert Gildon:

Yeah. I think if I was with kids, it's about going in and going pow! Don't give them an opportunity to... Touch your head, shrug shoulders, rub your hands. Touch your head, run for five seconds. 1, 2, 3, 4, turn around, touch your heads. That kind of thing is different. In prison, obviously it's about... I did a job in Pentonville recently and these are lads who are a lot bigger than me. And so it's reading the room. It's never are the same. And I think that's one of the great things about doing workshops and this work is that actually you do have a plan in your head, but you may have to scrap it straightaway. You may have to go think on your feet.

Matt Moseley:

So you've got to be agile.

Robert Gildon:

You need agile and also little tools. You have little things you think, "Okay. That could work then." And sometimes you bomb. Yeah. I don't think I've ever really bombed so badly that it's been like tears for me, but there's times when I thought, "Oh my God, that just didn't work." And then sometimes you think, "I'm going to persist with this. I'm going to keep persisting and keep persisting and try a bit more because I think we could get somewhere with this." Other times you think, "Okay, drop it."

Matt Moseley:

Yeah.

Robert Gildon:

And so it's quite exciting, but every session I would say I do feel a bit nervous about going in, wherever it is because you never quite know what's going to happen. Confident but vulnerable. Open.

Matt Moseley:

Yeah, yeah. In control.

Robert Gildon:

Does that give you enough tools? I'm trying to think about things I do.

Matt Moseley:

That's wonderful, Rob. In terms of engaging young people, standoffish individuals, people who are maybe anxious in this situation, that's perfect.

Robert Gildon:

The old school way would be shouting at kids. You hear this a lot, like, "No." That kind of thing, which was in music circles and I can't bear it.

Matt Moseley:

It feels like a negative energy.

Robert Gildon:

Yeah. And it's also tiring. And sometimes you have to be really firm. But I suppose the lot of the people I work with now, they do it in a way that they don't shout, but they just distract. They do something really quickly to change it so people like... This whole thing, "Give me one. Give me one." And then you get the whole class to do that. And then they're a unit together. It's trying to create a company.

Matt Moseley:

Well that leads me perfectly onto our last section, which is about create.

Speaker 13:

Create.

Speaker 14:

Create.

Speaker 15:

Create.

Speaker 16:

Create.

Matt Moseley:

Something we're asking all of the people who are coming onto the podcast to provide a provocation for them. So is there something that you've thought about that given this moment you could offer our students?

Robert Gildon:

I think singing can make you feel great. I think there's just lots of evidence now, not only just for your physical health, but also your mental health. And it's a way of joining together and just connecting with your breath, it's very meditative. So I suppose my thing to you... So I'm just going to sing you a little song. And I want you to learn this song. It's really simple. And it goes like this:

Robert Gildon:

(singing) . Bella mama, Bella Mama Yay.. Bella mama, Bella Mama Bella mama, Bella Mama Yay. Bella mama, Bella Mama Yay.

Robert Gildon:

So that's the song. I just teach you line by line.

Matt Moseley:

That is wonderful, Rob.

Robert Gildon:

And this a little song and it's Bella Mama, which just means beautiful mother. And there are moves you can do with it, but you won't see those moves. And when I'm doing it, I'm doing a sweep of my hand, one left and one, right. So it goes (singing) Bella mama, Bella Mama Yay.

Robert Gildon:

And with the "Yay", I'm bringing my hands together. So you can interpret in any way you like. The next bit goes (singing) Bella mama, Bella Mama Yay.. And the third bit, just little scale down (singing)Bella mama, Bella Mama Yay.. And the final bit is the same as the first bit (singing) Bella mama, Bella Mama Yay.. I'll do the whole thing one more time (singing) Bella mama, Bella Mama Yay.. Bella mama, Bella Mama Bella mama, Bella Mama Yay. Bella mama, Bella Mama Yay. Now, I could really embarrass Matt now and make you do it. He's laughing, but I think this is what it's all about, isn't it?

Matt Moseley:

Look at them. They've popped up in the studio in anticipation.

Robert Gildon:

So there is a round you can do. So it goes-

Matt Moseley:

We could do it, Rob. Okay.

Robert Gildon:

We could do it. So do you want to go first? Do you think you've got it?

Matt Moseley:

Let me try.

Robert Gildon:

Okay, so it's (singing) Bella mama, Bella Mama Yay.. Bella mama, Bella Mama Bella mama, Bella Mama Yay. Bella mama, Bella Mama Yay.

Robert Gildon:

So that was nearly a round. But you know what, this is what... Matt's laughing away. This won't be edited out at all.

Matt Moseley:

I'm getting round of applause, Rob. You can't see their faces.

Robert Gildon:

So I suppose this is-

Matt Moseley:

It feels good. I'm testimony to it, it feels great to sing.

Robert Gildon:

And also, do you know what the thing is? It makes you laugh. So Matt is laughing now. He was also tapping his toes and he was moving his body. And there's something about it that makes you feel good. And I think you can do it as a round, you can do it up to four people, and you can do it with your flatmates. And it's just a simple little song and it's just a bit of fun.

Matt Moseley:

Great. Well, when I was on the train on the way here today of all the things I thought might happen during this podcast, I didn't envisage myself singing. So one of your great teaching skills has paid off today. You've led me into song unexpectedly.

Robert Gildon:

I think that's my job, isn't it? That's my job.

Matt Moseley:

It was great. Yeah, it was lovely. And it's interesting because that positive vibe of singing and participating, I feel a little bit of that even from that few seconds of singing with you. So I think that's certainly a massive part of it, isn't it, is doing it with other people, being part of something, a community.

Robert Gildon:

Yeah. I think it is.

Matt Moseley:

Great.

Matt Moseley:

Thank you for listening to this week's Teach Inspire Create podcast with Rob Gildon. I hope you've been able to take some valuable information from this episode and apply it in one way or another to your own creative practice. Join us next week when I'll be talking to Sue Hamilton-White, an art psychotherapist, artist, MD and founder of the nonprofit arts organisation, Untapped. I'll be talking to Sue about the cross section of arts and therapy, how COVID has affected young people, and how teachers can support wellbeing in creative teaching. If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want to, please do share your responses and feedback on social media, using the hashtag #TICpodcast. See you next time. Bye.